Speculation-Should sawk be ru?

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Postby Kingler12345 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:50 am

Pretty much what the title says, with 125 base attack and scarf to increase its good for nu speed, sawk is a terror for teams that don't have a good counter to face. Simple enough solution- ban it to RU. When I made the topic about lando I suspect test, somebody said it should be in showdown, so I made this one here. What are your thoughts?
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Postby Kingler12345 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:45 am

I'll start-yes.
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Postby celever » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:04 pm

If no one answers your thread then it is probably because it is a bad thread.

Why do you want Sawk banned now of all times when Primeape just entered the tier to give him competition and when Scolipede is a much more immediate threat. Especially now that Misdreavus and Weezing, some of Sawk's best counters, are much more popular in the tier due to the aforementioned Scolipede and Primeape being so popular.
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Postby Diatom » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:30 pm

Sawk will not go RU unless it receives enough usage there (around 3.41%), which is doubtful seeing that Gallade and Medicham nearly completely outclass it there. With stuff like Musharna and Alomomola in NU as well, Sawk is without a doubt not broken there.
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Postby Seed » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:02 pm

I have to agree that Sawk is pretty outclassed in RU. Even NU Primeape gives it competition because of higher speed and access to the ever handy U-Turn.
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Postby hoopsandpoops » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:39 pm

while i can understand the urge to use primeape in NU for the increased flexibility, or even gurdurr for extra bulk, choiced banded sawk is the most powerful physical threat in the tier. with only 2 true counters (musharna, misdrevus) that can be accounted for on a team, there a few other pokémon that appreciate switching into a cb close combat.

i agree that sawk should remain NU, but that's only because it's outclassed by the other RU fighting types, not because it lacks the prowess in its own tier. it's kind of like when garchomp was big in ou -- every team consisted of garchomp, a counter to garchomp, and something to kill a garchomp counter. so many NU teams carry the same piece, except for sawk.
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Postby Kingler12345 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:25 am

Ok then. Yeah, forgot about gallade and medicham. But I don't believe sawk is outclassed by primeape. With access to mold breaker and earthquake being a pretty popular move on its sets, weezing is a check at best. It's got dat 125 base attack. While it would be outclassed in RU it is CERTAINLY no slouch in nu.
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Postby celever » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:03 am

So he is good in the tier. Breloom is very good and versatile in OU, should Breloom be ubers? No, he shouldn't. Should Sawk be RU? By the same leg no.

What does it matter if he has few counters, when the counters that he does have are very popular now. With Primeape he is suddenly seeing less use, you don't think that is because Primeape is better on some teams? If he was broken he would be the king of NU in the stats, since everyone uses broken stuff; he's not. Everything is wrong about this thread.
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Postby Kingler12345 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:29 am

celever wrote:So he is good in the tier. Breloom is very good and versatile in OU, should Breloom be ubers? No, he shouldn't. Should Sawk be RU? By the same leg no.

What does it matter if he has few counters, when the counters that he does have are very popular now. With Primeape he is suddenly seeing less use, you don't think that is because Primeape is better on some teams? If he was broken he would be the king of NU in the stats, since everyone uses broken stuff; he's not. Everything is wrong about this thread.

Ok.
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Postby celever » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:34 am

By the way, now that we have Mandibuzz in NU Sawk is even worse.

Just saying.
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Postby 0danmaster0 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:50 am

celever wrote:By the way, now that we have Mandibuzz in NU Sawk is even worse.

Just saying.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mandibuzz: 298-352 (70.44 - 83.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Great counter bro.
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Postby LCladderin » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:38 am

MANDIBUZZ IS NU???????
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Postby LCladderin » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:43 am

And i believe if a new tier between RU and NU is created in X/Y, sawk should go there.
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Postby celever » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:35 pm

LCladderin wrote:And i believe if a new tier between RU and NU is created in X/Y, sawk should go there.


RU is a small tier as is. What I want is for PU to become official so NU would be the tier between PU and RU, with PU the new NU.

Also I don't care about mandibuzz being a counter, point is this thread is bad, end of.
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Postby LCladderin » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:36 am

celever wrote:
LCladderin wrote:And i believe if a new tier between RU and NU is created in X/Y, sawk should go there.


RU is a small tier as is. What I want is for PU to become official so NU would be the tier between PU and RU, with PU the new NU.

Also I don't care about mandibuzz being a counter, point is this thread is bad, end of.

How come all of your arguments end with "this thread is bad"? I am purely speculating and sawk has only a handful of real counters, whixh its teammates can take care of. It's a lot more powerful than primeape and definitely one of the strongest NU pokemon.
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Postby celever » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:39 am

LCladderin wrote:
celever wrote:
RU is a small tier as is. What I want is for PU to become official so NU would be the tier between PU and RU, with PU the new NU.

Also I don't care about mandibuzz being a counter, point is this thread is bad, end of.

How come all of your arguments end with "this thread is bad"? I am purely speculating and sawk has only a handful of real counters, whixh its teammates can take care of. It's a lot more powerful than primeape and definitely one of the strongest NU pokemon.


Probably because it IS a bad thread. I am not arguing that Sawk is bad in NU, he obviously is not, but he is far from broken. Very very far off being broken.

It is stronger than primeape, that means he is better right? For a noob maybe, but primeape has more movepool options, especially important moves this generation such as U-turn and encore.
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Postby flcl sucks » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:58 am

Ok, I'm not saying that Sawk is broken and should go to RU, but it isn't ''very very far off from being broken''. It is a very good Pokemon, but its Speed tier isn't that good in NU anymore, as 95 Base Speed is the thing to outspeed now. It is stopped cold by a couple of Pokemon such as Musharna and Misdreavus, and if it's Choiced, predicting vs Sawk can win you the game. Now you say that Sawk can have teammates such as Skuntank to dispatch of Mush and Missy, right? Wrong. Skilled players (something you don't seem to be), commonly use Baton Pass and Thunder Wave Musharna, while Misdreavus can just Will-O-Wisp to catch an incoming Skuntank to incapacitate it for the majority of the game. Primeape also gives it competition (notice, not outclass, gives competition), because it gets U-turn to gain momentum and switch out from incoming Psychic types. Oh, and yes, this thread is awful. Pro-ban Sawk arguments are just bad and not elaborated enough.
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Postby Kingler12345 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:07 am

Ok, I'm done with this thread.
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Postby mikel » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:16 am

guys keep discussion to the topic given please, not on whether you believe it to be a "bad thread".

further inappropriate posts will be edited/deleted.
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Postby Oiawesome » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:22 am

0danmaster0 wrote:
celever wrote:By the way, now that we have Mandibuzz in NU Sawk is even worse.

Just saying.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mandibuzz: 298-352 (70.44 - 83.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Great counter bro.


Who in this day and age is using ADAMANT BANDED Sawk? I mean seriously? If you're using Ban go Jolly at least, going banded and adamant is basically asking yourself to get outsped and killed. also you're only running 8 def on Mandibuzz? looks like you're wasting a lot of great defense potential bro, I mean base 105 defense is great especially with Mandibuzz's level of HP.

Now back to the whole counters thing, lets assume that the Sawk is banded and since you seem to be running adamant for some reason lets also put that in to see max damage output reasons and lets see the calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 86-102 (32.82 - 38.93%) -- 99.76% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 32.33 - 38.1%
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 36.11 - 42.59%
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Duosion: 37.72 - 44.61%
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 40.84 - 48.64%

Oh what's that? I Put in Scolipede? Now please hold your arguments and let me explain that: In this age of NU scolipede is one of THE best pokemon in the tier especially since nearly nothing can counter it that means Sawk can't either. I'm just assuming CC since that's what the average player is bound to spam with Sawk anyways so we have a total of 5 possible checks/counters, tbh Scolipede can only beat it when it's CC or ice punch(252 Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 160-189 (54.98 - 64.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and considering that the bulky offensive spiker set is not too scarce in usage it can counter Sawk if played right.

Don't believe that those up there can beat banded Sawk which in turn means they can most likely beat scarf Sawk? HERE ARE SOME CALCS:

252+ Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 157-186 (53.95 - 63.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 153-181 (52.57 - 62.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Duosion Psychic vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 446-528 (153.26 - 181.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 390-462 (134.02 - 158.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 144-169 (49.48 - 58.07%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO
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Postby Kingler12345 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:35 am

Thank you, oiawesome, for giving some fresh insight into the thread. I believe sawk can stay in NU but for me it's undoubtedly one of the best NU pokemon because of its sheer power. Also oiawesome, revenge killing isn't something sawk should worry about. You have to cushion the initial blow repeatedly. Anyways, thank you for posting.( mandibuzz is really a special wall so it will most likely be 8 def, anyway.)
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