Point System for Pokemon Teams

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Postby Brison » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:49 am

I have been looking around at the different Tiers on this site and have been wondering if anyone has ever thought of using a point-system for team construction. Widely used in turn-based table-top games, a point system would assign a number to each pokemon and has a number of total points allowed to construct a team. The total number from adding all your pokemon's points cannot exceed the maximum allowed for the team value. I think it would have some pretty large benefits compared to the current tiered system.

In Tiers, Team construction is horribly limited since, in order to be competitive, players automatically have to maximize each slot in their team with the best pokemon available for that slot. Ubers will almost always stick to the Uber pool alone, while OU will only use OU. Even grabbing a pokemon from OU for use in Ubers can be considered a detriment by not maxing out that slot. By extension, this causes teams to look highly similar as the same pokemon are used in each tier time after time.

However, with a point system, the better the pokemon, the more points it has. This means if you put an Uber on your team, you may be forced to use some from NU in order to balance it out and remain below the maximum allowed team point total. Teams become balanced because the whole of the team is required to be equal to its competition point-wise. In this case, maxing out one slot can mean a detriment to another.

This also means people can use their favorite pokemon and still remain competative. The team point system allows for a trainer to compensate for their favorite pokemon's relative strength by being allowed to put a relatively stronger or weaker teammate in another slot. Better yet, by simply assigning pokemon their number based on their current tier, eg. Uber=10 pts, OU=6 pts, etc., a number-based system can simply be used on top of current rankings. Admittedly this last idea seems to have been brought up before, though their idea seems hardly polished: http://z6.invisionfree.com/Pokemon_Nation/ar/t869.htm

While as a whole I agree a point system would need a ton of fine tuning to be workable, I am wondering your thoughts as to how it might possibly better pokemon battling as a whole.
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Postby blastoise FTW » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:09 pm

damn
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Postby Egyptian » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:18 pm

What is the point of metagames (ou,uu,ru,nu) then? Not to mention "BudgetMons" metagame
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Postby Relados » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:33 pm

This is essentially the same idea as Budgetmons.
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Postby Brison » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:14 pm

Egyptian wrote:What is the point of metagames (ou,uu,ru,nu) then? Not to mention "BudgetMons" metagame


Well the tier system can still exist; this is just another way of balancing things, one that allows for more variety. Adding a point system does not suddenly stop the current tier system from being used or even incorporated into it. And it's not like a point-system can't have it's own tiers as well. In this case it would based on changing the total points allowed for a team instead of the maximum quality of a pokemon allowed in each slot. There can be an OU tier where the point total has to be the average for a team of OU pokemon, but there might be a team with an Uber in exchange for a few NU pokemon in other slots. It opens up the variety of what you can see and be prepared for.

Relados wrote:This is essentially the same idea as Budgetmons.


This is what I found regarding that term for reference: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bu ... b.3486872/

They do seem to have the basic idea, though the term "Budgetmon" doesn't really capture the idea-- point systems have been used for games like Warmachine/Horde, Warhammer, and the Ogre Battle series. The term just connotates being cheap with pokemon or something when it is actually about adding a new depth to team construction. Also, as I said before, there can be multiple tiers with multiple team point totals whereas here they just suggest one.
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Postby theartofsweep » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:01 pm

So budgetmons with tiers? And perhaps a slightly different meathod of point distribution? That seems too simmilar to budgetmons to be practical. Not that it is a bad idea, just that it is too simmilar to budgetmons.
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Postby Brison » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:02 pm

theartofsweep wrote:So budgetmons with tiers? And perhaps a slightly different meathod of point distribution? That seems too simmilar to budgetmons to be practical. Not that it is a bad idea, just that it is too simmilar to budgetmons.


Really not Budgetmon, considering that that system uses Base Stat Totals (BST) to determine the total for a team. Though the tier system definitely has it's problems, I would rather a pokemon's usability in a ranked system be used for its point total rather than base stats. Since most pokemon have 'filler stats' and BST does not take into account abilities, typing, or move sets, what it really does it allow outliers to dominate by disguising their true power.

As well, Budgetmons set their BST for teams, 2300, way to low other than to be a gimmick. 2300 total means the average expected BST for a team's pokemon is about 383. Considering the lowest BST is 300 and the lowest fully evolved BST is Butterfree with 385, it's hardly expected that you will actually fight with a fully evolved team. It's really impractical.

As said, tons of different RPG and strategy games have used a point-based systems for balanced yet varied team construction. Why Pokemon didn't do it from the start I haven't the slightest. This isn't based off of anything but a method for providing proper team balance while at the same time maximizing available choice. The one thing that is driving me away from 'competitive' pokemon teaming is the lack of variance (even in Budgetmon for reasons I said above). When people have a parameter to fit they will maximize in any way possible to gain an edge. This method is simply a bit harder to abuse in such a manner. A point system would certainly would need to be fine-tuned, but it is nothing I would dismiss before attempting.
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